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@ Tom thanks for that clarification with Exchange, this has been a very informative Chat, I appreciate your expertise and time. Have a great day everyone !
@SaneIT: Most systems will try you over IPv6 first, then over IPv4. There is some fallback, but it may make things seem "slow" for people while the timeout/faillovers happen.
@ Tom Good point about the reduction in pricing with regard to internet access slowing due to upgrade costs, and I wonder how Teleco's will handle this opportunity to reduce the pricing of their service if as Curtis mentions they can leverage IPV6 faster than everyday networks can ....
Amazing. Well, we seem to have run to the end of our time here. Tom, thanks so much for giving us so much of your time today -- it's been great, and we look forward to talking with you again in the future!
@tomdynic is that timeout going to cause issues in the future when more people are requesting IPv6 addresses and you're not responding or will the IPv4 interface just take off when it gets a response without waint for the IPv6 interface?
@Curtis: You'd think - but they are two seperate networks, and we all used to think we'd have an IPv6 "flag day" to just turn it on. No one thought about us doing billions of dollars of commerce over the Internet at that time.
@tomdyninc It was weird & I only nknew it had something to do with IPv6 because when I re-enabled it (though no devices in the network use it), everything worked fine.
@Technocrat @The_Phil For example, DNS doesn't care. If you query my DNS over IPv4 and IPv6, we /have/ to give you IPv6, even though you cannot get there. Then you just have to wait to timeout...
@Technocrat @The_Phil And I would bet you some $$$ that the issue was raised due to some interaction between IPv4 and IPv6, and likely their ability to look up their hostname records in DNS via v4 and v6. The ability for systems to detect if they are connected to v4 or v6 or both has been a long problem.
@Technocrat. I had a sitaution where I 'accidentally' disabled IPv6 and Exchange went haywire. In addition to the fact that the server did NOT restart for about another hour.
@Curtis: No joke! Newer devices, such as iPads and tablets are supporting IPv6 out of the box, and it does "just work." Like anything else, implementing IPv4/IPv6 from nothing is far easier than trying to graft IPv6 support onto an IPv4 system.
@SaneIT: Pretty long, I'm sure. It will take decades for everything that's currently running on IPv4 to get migrated to IPv6. I'm not sure I'll see the transition completed in my lifetime...
You know, I do think it would be funny (in both an ironic and a "ha-ha" sort of way) if my phone and tablet devices were operating on IPv6 before my laptop computers...I wonder whether phone companies will be early movers on this because they don't have to worry about firewalls and routers on the customer end.
And @Tom, I figured that DNS would be fairly solid -- something told me that you'd have things moving in the right direction over at Dyn!
@zerox203: They might. It takes a lot of money to upgrade networks, and some ISPs never planned for these upgrades in thier business models. It's why we've seen a slowing in the compression of price for Internet access recently, these networks have to pay for these upgrades somehow.
How long will carriers keep IPv4 gear up and running? I'm wondering if we'll end up with a zombie network after the majority of the world makes the cut.
@tomdyninc, but are we giving the ISPs too much of the benefit of the doubt by saying they 'cannot upgrade'? I'm afraid some of them might end up trying to use stopgaps longer than they should, out of something other than neccessity.
@Curtis: I'd say that the protocols in IPv6 and related services are laid out at this point. The design is done, but for many services, such as IPv6 DHCPv6, the implementations are fairly new. This has created some hold ups in the adoption and deployment of IPv6.
@Tom, I've also seen some questions about whether some of the basic network functions (DNS, DHCP, etc.) have been "standardized' in IPv6 functionality. Is that an issue? I know at least one vendor that was holding off on updating hardware because of an IPv6 DHCP question, for example.
@Curtis: The transition technologies are there for the cases where ISPs cannot upgrade the core pieces of their network from IPv4, for a variety of reasons.
@Curtis: There are many different transition technologies out there: 6to4, Toredo, 6RD, DS-Lite. They are simply ways to provide IPv6 to the edge of carrier networks, across an IPv4 core. There's lots of implementation differences, but they all accomplish the same goal of getting IPv6 connectivity to users.
@Tom, you mentioned a number of IPv6 to IPv4 transition stacks. Are there any real qualitative differences between them, or is any one of them likely to do the job you need it to do?
@Technocrat: Good question. You might have an IPv6 address locally, due to something in IPv6 called Stateless Autoconfiguration (SLAC) in IPv6 - it's kind of like DHCP for IPv6 lite edition - if the devices in your network support it, you may have an IPv6 address. Whether or not you can get out of your network on IPv6 is another story.
@LadyIT, I know that I've seen performance differences when I go to IPv6 sites now -- Google, YouTube, and several other sites have IPv6 version -- but I think that's probably because of a difference in user load rather than any inherent difference brought about by addressing.
One thing that I should point out to everyone: The IPv6 Internet is still being built - people need to implement it to it to get it to work across the Internet - one of the key problems today is that one IPv6 user may not be able to connect to another IPv6 user if those two independent networks are not connected.
The_Phil: Sure, you setup your services on IPv4 and IPv6, and watch / compare your log files. It's a lot of data crunching, but it is the only way to make sure things are working properly at this point.
@Tom, I see. While I know that's a good idea from a security point of view, I wonder if governments like the one that seems about ready to relinquish power in Egypt will be more active in forcing their countries to IPv6 for "national security" reasons. They'll certainly want to know who's saying those nasty things about them in chat sessions...
@Zeppy: There may be a black market for IPv4 addresses in the future, but its not allowed per ARIN rules. IP addresses are not something you own, they are leased for your use.
@Curtis: We certainly get more security - we'll know exactly who was doing what with what addresses and when - no more hiding your true identity behind NAT. You're also right in the that it is largely dependent on what vendors choose to do.
I'll throw out to everyone that, if you want to see what your current IPv6 status is, you can to to http://test-ipv6.com . The results are fascinating, and can show you some things you didn't know about your ISP's service.
@Sara: The only way to know is to test. Setup a small version of your website on IPv6, and see who can get there. Many websites today use a tracking pixel devliered over IPv6 only in their HTML to see if a user is connected to IPv4 and IPv6. Check out http://ipv6.google.com for an example.
@Tom, I can see that, but I keep reading stories that say that IPv6 is bringing major new security functionaily to the table. Is that true, or does it depend on what the hardware/software vendors choose to do with the capabilities of IPv6?
@Technocrat: You're right, its a mix. It really depends on the hardware and software. Some software based devices, such as home routers and gateways, will only need new software loaded onto them. For hardware based devices, such as large core Internet routers, which handle 100s of Gigabits of traffic, run IP addressing right in the hardware, in the silicon. In many cases, these hardware devices need to be completely replaced.
@tomdyninc You say: You should be thinking about what services you need to expose to your customers and users that makes sense. As a service provider, think about who is accessing your networks, and what type of transport, IPv4 or IPv6 will they be riding over." How can I best determine what type of transport my customers will be riding over?
@DBK it's going to be market demand. I know the manufacturer of my firewall has been "conservative" with their IPv6 implementation -- they're only now issuing firmware updates that start to deal with things like IPv6 DHCP and firewall rules.
In IPv6, we know that security gets harder. There's much more address space to secure, and there's many hurdles to managing the address space. Without NAT in IPv6, I do worry that more home users will go ride on the open internet, without the use of a firewall to protect them.
@ Tom Some say manufactures will provide upgrades for hardware that needs to be reconfigured for IPV6 ? Some say it is not necessary - and some still claim you will need new hardware. What is the real answer ? A combination of all of these ?
@SaneIT, you know that the Interop show gave an entire Class A back to the INAN in October. They'd had it for a couple of decades for show use and opened it up to the rest of the Internet.
Tom, wondering if there will actually be any differences with IPv6 addresses that regular users will notice, anything better, worse, or nothing we'll notice?
Tom, I want to ask a question that we didn't get a chance to discuss on the radio show -- how will IPv6 effect security? Will it necessarily get better under v6?
@Sara - Not really. You should be thinking about what services you need to expose to your customers and users that makes sense. As a service provider, think about who is accessing your networks, and what type of transport, IPv4 or IPv6 will they be riding over.
@The_Phil WOW, I had the opposite happen a few moths ago, I asked for a /26 and they gave me a /24 which I think is part of why we're running out of IPv4 addresses.
@ LadyIT I have heard that IPV6 will allow enough ip addresses to assign one address to every strand of sand in the world ...whether it is true or not ...who knows.... but being based on 128bit structure surely gives it a good chance of lasting our lifetime at least.
@ Zerox203 no kidding, NAT is a great workaround for the address space issue but it gets annoying when you have to keep spreadsheets to keep up with mappings.
@Technocrat, you can hand-enter IPv6 addresses as well. All Windows versions since XP and Mac OS X will allow this, as will all the current Linux distros.
I think that there have been discussions at ICANN/ IANA that we move to IPv6, and create new top-level domains -- for nations. or for different types of businesses that require different security postures
NAT is the only reason it took this long to run out of public addresses, the new scheme seems to be masking IPv4 devices behind IPv6 routers in much the same way.
Welcome to the chat for our E2 Radio episode on IPv6. We'll be following the chat during the show, and then Tom and I will be over here full-time when the radio show is finished!
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